陈牧：人臣之对帝王，多承意顺旨，甘言取容，今，寡人欲闻己过，先生何以教我？萧凡：臣以为，大王每与公卿论事，及有上书者，以其不称旨，或面加诘难，无不惭退，恐非诱进直言之道，愿大王常抑之。萧凡：先生之言是也，寡人谨受教。chen mu：Ministers often obeyed the will of the king，And they only say nice things，Now， I want to understand my mistakes，Sir taught me what to do？xiao fan：I think，When you discuss government affairs with ministers，If the proposal they make is not what you want，Then you will blame them，That made them so ashamed that they did not dare to tell the truth，I hope you can restrain your emotions，Only then will you understand your mistakes。chen mu：Sir is right，I respectfully accept your teachings。陈牧：寡人欲将同卿南游吴、越，泛长江，临沧海，可乎？先生以为如何？萧凡：臣以为，大王应天御世，居中土而制四维，自足比隆尧、舜，何必栉风沐雨，经略遐方乎！且东南卑湿，沴气易构，虞舜游而不归，大禹往而不复，秦始皇死于沙丘。何足以上劳大驾也！陈牧：先生之言是也，寡人受教矣。chen mu：I want to travel to Nanyue with you，We tour the Yangtze River and the sea together，Sir，what do you think？xiao fan：I think，You should govern the whole country in the capital，This is in accordance with the will of God，In doing so， you can be compared to Yao Shun，Therefore， there is no need for you to brave the storm and danger to conquer the world yourself，Besides， the climate in the southeast is hot and humid，It is prone to plague，Yu Shun and Qin Shi Huang both died in the southeast region，There is no need to risk。chen mu：Sir is right，I accept your teachings。陈牧：寡人忆往昔，欲知前西凉何以亡也？先生教我。萧凡：臣以为，以吾观之，所谓君不君，臣不臣者也。人主自臧，则众谋不进。事是而臧之，犹却众谋，况和非以长恶乎！夫不察事之是非，而悦人赞己，闇莫甚焉；不度理之所在，而阿谀求容，谄莫甚焉。君闇臣谄，以居百姓之上，民不与也。若此不已，国无类矣！愿大王鉴之。陈牧：先生之言是也，寡人受教矣。chen mu：I have recalled things from the past，I want to know the reason for the demise of Western Liang，Sir taught me why？xiao fan：I think，Its king and ministers were incompetent and unqualified，King Liang often made his own decisions rather than consulting his ministers，This means that he refuses to be suggested，Therefore， the ministers no longer gave him advice，This creates a vicious circle，King Liang did not seek the truth of the matter，but wanted others to praise him，He is indeed mediocre and stupid，Therefore， the ministers do not care about the truth of the matter，They constantly flattered King Liang，There were such king and ministers，The people will not support them，It is a certain Western Liang towards extinction，I hope you learn from it。chen mu：Sir is right，I accept your teachings。陈牧：寡人观历代家国，多者八百余年，少者才二三十年而已，吾甚惑焉，先生何以教我？萧凡：臣以为，国祚长久者，皆为积德累业，恩结于人心。运少者，盖由创业之君不务广恩化，当时仅能自守，后无遗德可思。故传嗣之主政教少衰，一夫大呼而天下土崩矣。今大王虽以大功定天下，而积德日浅，固当崇禹、汤、文、武之道，广施德化，使恩有余地，为子孙立万代之基。岂欲但令政教无失，以持当年而已耶？陈牧：先生之言是也，寡人受教矣。chen mu：When I read history，I found that some countries have hundreds of years of life，Other countries only have a few decades of lifespan，I am very puzzled by this，Sir taught me why？xiao fan：I think，Some countries do have long lifespans，Because the kings of the nation accumulate benevolence and righteousness and give favors to the people，Some countries have a short lifespan，Because their king did the opposite，At the same time， they have no legacy of good policies，As a result， these countries quickly declined，The national roots are so shallow that they are replaced，Although you settled the world，It does not last long for you to accumulate benevolence，You should learn from the Holy King，You should promote benevolence and give favor to the people，At the same time， you need to perpetuate this policy for future generations，Only in this way will the country have a long life。chen mu：Sir is right，I accept your teachings。陈牧：寡人愿闻，近来为政得失，请先生直言。萧凡：臣以为，今百姓承丧乱之后，比于唐时才十分之三，而供官徭役，道路相继，兄去弟还，首尾不绝。远者往来五六千里，春秋冬夏，略无休时。大王虽每有恩诏，令其减省，而有司作既不废，自然须人，徒行文书，役之如故。臣每访问，四五年来，百姓颇有怨嗟之言，以大王不存养之。陈牧：非先生之言，寡人不知也，此乃吾之过也。chen mu：I want to know，What problems exist in terms of governing the country？Sir，Please tell me the truth。xiao fan：I think，The people have just emerged from a state of war，The population is only three-tenths of the Tang Dynasty，Our conscription and taxes are heavy，People are burdened and suffering，They hardly have time to rest，Although， you have good policies，And you ask local officials to reduce conscription，But they didn't enforce your policy，It is the same as before，In recent years， I have conducted field trips，People have started complaining about you。chen mu：Sir is right，I was wrong。陈牧：每观前代之成败，寡人甚为嗟叹，先生何以教我？萧凡：臣以为，凡修政教，当修之于可修之时，若事变一起，而后悔之，则无益也。故人主每见前代之亡，则知其政教之所由丧，而皆不知其身之有失。是以殷纣笑夏桀之亡，而优、厉亦笑殷纣之灭。隋帝大业之初，又笑周、齐之失国，唐太宗君临天下，视炀帝亦犹，炀帝之视周、齐也。陈牧：先生之言是也，寡人受教矣。chen mu：I have learned about the reasons why many countries rise and fall，I am very impressed by this，Sir taught me why？xiao fan：I think，If you want to improve the policy，You have to do it as long as the conditions allow，Once， there is an emergency，It is too late for you to regret it，Therefore， contemporary kings usually know the reasons for the demise of ancient states，However， they do not see that they have made the same mistake，Therefore， King Shang jokes at King Xia，King Zhou jokes about King Shang，Emperor Taizong of Tang joked about Emperor Sui，Now people laugh at the ancients，People in the future will laugh at us，Events keep repeating themselves。chen mu：Sir is right，I accept your teachings。陈牧：近来百姓皆有怨言，寡人甚惑之，先生何以教我？萧凡：臣以为，大王君临之初，率土霜俭，一匹绢才得粟一斗，而天下帖然。百姓知大王甚忧怜之，故人人自安，曾无谤。近年来，频岁丰稔，一匹绢得十余石粟，是而，百姓皆以大王不忧怜之，咸有怨言。又今所营为者，颇多不急之务故也。自古以来，国之兴亡不由蓄积多少，惟在百姓苦乐，愿大王废不急宽百姓。陈牧：先生之言是也，寡人谨受教。chen mu：Recently, the people began to complain about the state，I am very puzzled by this，Sir taught me why？xiao fan：I think，When you were just in power，People are frugal，Moreover, a horse of cloth is equivalent to a bucket of rice，Society was stable and harmonious，The people know that you are benevolent and righteous，So, they show understanding rather than complaints，In recent years, grain harvests have been bumper，However, the price of goods has risen tenfold，The people feel that you are no longer benevolent，So，They began to complain about the state，During this time, you have implemented some projects that are not in a hurry，Since ancient times，The rise and fall of a country is not how much the treasury has saved，The key to it is whether the people are happy or not，I hope you will be able to suspend unnecessary projects to appease the people。chen mu：Sir is right，I respectfully accept your teachings。